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JM: Young tilted head closeup

cyndrarae

Rebelling against Reality since 2003

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JM: Young tilted head closeup
cyndrarae

Upset ranting and a question. Actually, several...

I have a request for you guys..

Since you were kind enough to friend me, I assume you have been reading the stuff I write yeah? So I guess you would be the best people to answer this question. Umm... okay see there is this author (who shall forever remain unnamed) that I used to like. And now I don't anymore, because I just realized that all her writing,  ALL of her fifty something series are exactly the same - DEPRESSING.

And dark and hopeless. She keeps breaking the characters down, puts them through so much angst and torture until there is nothing left. And then she does it some more. Even the sex isn't hot, it's just kinda... sad. Dubious consent at best. And I have a point I swear. Okay, let me try again.

See this author... the way she writes is so riveting and so bloody... GOOD that... I can't help but get emotionally involved. I start to relate more than I want to. But the thing is, the plot - the characters' circumstances just keep getting worse and worse and it doesn't get better, ever. Even at the end when the big bad is defeated and it's time to start healing and stuff, it's like... she doesn't really want to go there, where things are getting better. She touches upon them like briefly then shies away to a new torture series. The bad parts are graphic and excruciatingly detailed. And I wonder why she writes the way she does. Every writer has demons of his or her own that they're trying to exorcise through this creative outlet.

I feel for her, I really do. But I cannot put myself through this again.

I cannot, will not read her ever again because she just brings me down so horribly. I keep thinking about it and fret about it and smoke a couple more than my usual limit for the day and sometimes, when I'm three or more glasses of wine down like now, I start to cry and have to literally smack myself in the forehead to remind me that it's not real. That it's only fiction.

Yeah, that's how good she is. So.. I'm done with her. Which brings me back to my original reason for this post.

Now I write a considerable amount of angst myself right. And clearly it is a level of pathos I am personally comfortable with, just like the writer mentioned above is comfortable with hers. But what do YOU guys as READERS think? Have I written something, anything so far that has brought you down? Upset you somehow? Made you feel like - "Dude, this is way too painful for me." ? Or "Dude, what is this girl's childhood trauma??" Or "Okay. Reading that one was a mistake." ???

Because, I don't think I want to be that kind of writer that makes people sad. I want to write happy stuff, optimistic stuff. Altho realistically speaking, I suck at fluff. But the least I can do is... write something hopeful you know. And not offload my personal demons onto my readers. I just don't want to do that.

So... umm... I need to know what you guys think? And if there is a piece of my writing that upsets you?

I probably won't take it down for the sake of maintaining my archive to show progress made (bleh if any!) through the years. But it would really help me understand myself and my writing a little more. This is not an attempt to go professional in any way haha. My stupid job and my husband and my dog keep me busy plenty enough thank you. I just... I'm curious you know?

Is there any reason for why we write angst in the first place? And why do we even read it?? What the fuck do we get out of these sad, tragic stories????

........

well, I don't like depressing stuff and I don't read torture fic at all (I sort of despise violence), and I read and like your stuff, so I guess here's your answer :-)

btw did you manage to get ljarchive to work with your lj?

Thanks so much sweetheart :) I have my days and certain moods when I can read torture but it still needs to end well or I get really upset. That's what happened yesterday and I ended up ranting here on my LJ haha.

Nope :( LJarchive didn't work for me :( I do believe I have tried everything *facepalm*

I think with everything, there's a limit and when it's overpassed or done in excess than it's not fun anymore.

I dunno, I think everyone has their own issues or whatever, most writers are kinda weird LOL but I don't really get pain and angst just for no reason. I don't mind it in a story and sometimes it's done very well and more importantly there is some kind of resolution or happiness at the end. That's a big deal for me, cause I tend to get emotional about characters, and I don't want to see them go through this huge struggle and come out knee deep in shit at the end.

You've never made me want to stop reading any of your stories, so at least on my meter that means it's just right :D

Exactly! There's got to be a limit, a point where you stop and say okay, I'm not gonna torture these boys anymore and I'm gonna fix it. That author... I don't believe she ever feels the need to fix anything :(

I don't mind it in a story and sometimes it's done very well and more importantly there is some kind of resolution or happiness at the end. That's a big deal for me, cause I tend to get emotional about characters, and I don't want to see them go through this huge struggle and come out knee deep in shit at the end.

Exactly hon!! I intend to stick to this credo in everything I write. And I guess I'm going to pay more attention to headers before diving into a story.

You've never made me want to stop reading any of your stories, so at least on my meter that means it's just right :D

Thank you so much sweetheart. You know you guys give me such a complex. Everyone in Jet's group writes such brilliant happy, fluffy stuff and I can't bring myself to write any of that. Somehow it always turns out angsty. So yeah.. I'm just so glad you guys are around, you're my pick-me-ups :D:D

I'm a wuss, I find mild angst depressing. I try to steer clear of it almost completely so I think I am not good for this .. cause.. I know I will just not read something if angst is listed. I'm way too depressed normally, and if I am attached to characters.. I just drop further if I read angst. Even angst with happy endings bring me down.

So, yeah, sorry.. I'm a wuss.

Awww sweetie :) I know you don't like angsty stuff. I'm glad you read my last SPN fic even though it was a little(?) depressing.

I'm way too depressed normally, and if I am attached to characters.. I just drop further if I read angst. Even angst with happy endings bring me down.

I guess I will mark all future stuff for angst so you would know not to go in. I wouldn't want to bring anyone down. It happened to me yesterday and it completely sucked.

You're not a wuss!! :D You're a sweetheart! *hugs and kisses* :)

You know hon, you really got me thinking. I guess a lot of ppl are drawn to melodramas. I think that's why (for me anyways) wallowing in self pities can be so easy. The thing is, it's not really legit, it can be quite petty actually. I think that's why I write angst. To get my characters justifiably messed up. Kind of coping with how tedious RL problems can sometimes get, I guess. The funny thing is, I don't want to ever go through any of the things I'm cooking up for the boys... Hmm..
I always wonder why slash, I never thought of why angst :/

As for your fics - the ones I read (then re-read), it's very easy to tell you love your characters and feel compassion for them. That's what makes it such a great read. I really think avoiding that writer is a good idea, LJ and fics are suppose to make you happy. You get enough of the rest in RL :)

I think that's why (for me anyways) wallowing in self pities can be so easy. The thing is, it's not really legit, it can be quite petty actually. I think that's why I write angst. To get my characters justifiably messed up. Kind of coping with how tedious RL problems can sometimes get, I guess. The funny thing is, I don't want to ever go through any of the things I'm cooking up for the boys..

Woah... I never thought of it that way *thinks* Hon you might be right!! We mess our characters up more than.. well, a lot. Just so we can justify the wallowing. I have a major thing for comforting and cuddling, where Logan takes care of Scott in his absolute possessive, alpha male way. But to get to that point.. I need a reason to justify the need for that cuddling and that's why.. Oh Boy. I think you're right!! Shit :)) You're a genius sweetheart!! :)) It's the same thing in SPN - I love Sammy getting whumped because that gives Dean a reason to hold him and take care of him!!! Awww man.. :D:D It is so simple why didn't i see it before??!?!

:D:D

But that just reinforces my original point. I need to see that healing phase, its so very important for me. But this author that I was talking about - I guess her priority is just to see that hurting phase. And she is not concerned with putting things right. Guess that's why I reacted to her series so badly yesterday. Hmm...

As for your fics - the ones I read (then re-read), it's very easy to tell you love your characters and feel compassion for them. That's what makes it such a great read. I really think avoiding that writer is a good idea, LJ and fics are suppose to make you happy. You get enough of the rest in RL :)

Thank you so much sweetheart! I do love these characters or I wouldn't be bothered to write them. And yeah, I need to avoid that author completely. *hugs and kisses*



First of all, as a writer you must write what YOU feel like writing. Don't think of it as writing for readers--write for YOU. Secondly, as a reader, all I ask is that you provide the proper warnings. I tend not to read angst or dark!fics, so I shy away from those with such warnings. What annoys me is if someone doesn't warn for those, and I end up reading it and feeling depressed. I can't recall that I've ever read anything of yours that brought me down, but that was likely because you had the proper warnings on any angsty fics, and I skipped them.

You're right hon. I do write for myself. I write a lot of unconventional subjects that are not exactly popular material and I do it because writing is my way to vent. But what I wouldn't wanna do is bring somebody down just because they read my stuff, you know?

Putting proper warnings is definitely the way to go. I like angst generally, I mean i have my days when I want to read nothing BUT angst. So yeah some days I will click on stuff despite the warning to feed that need for a little wallowing, if not in my own issues then somebody else's. You know? But what happened yesterday was.. this series was just so extremely depressing and it didn't get better till the very end and.. I just wasn't prepared for it.

I can't recall that I've ever read anything of yours that brought me down, but that was likely because you had the proper warnings on any angsty fics, and I skipped them.

That would make sense. Everything I've read of yours has been a joyride :) There is angst in the middle somewhere but you never focus on it so much. What I like about your writing is that Draco is always centerstage, and you don't judge him. You just portray him the way you want him to be - a slut, a Syltherin, with a conscience he tries to hide best as he can? :) I dunno.. haven't read too much, still in the process :D

I think your writing is great. I love a little angst in the stories I read. What I can't stand is overkill. I have a huge problem with stories that take the characters through emotional torture as well as physical. There's nothing wrong with a little angst, and sure it's okay if your characters suffer some physical abuse, that's where alot of the action comes in but a never ending tidal wave of pain and degradation is a little much for me so I personally avoid them. But I think its all just a matter of personal preference.

Thank you so much sweetie. I like angst too, but there needs to be a point to all the suffering. And there needs to be healing at the end.

There's nothing wrong with a little angst, and sure it's okay if your characters suffer some physical abuse, that's where alot of the action comes in but a never ending tidal wave of pain and degradation is a little much for me so I personally avoid them. But I think its all just a matter of personal preference.

I completely agree, with every word you said! What shocks and in a way, saddens me, is that some people would find it okay to subject their characters to immense pain and degradation. without any reason, and without any hope to escape it. What sort of trauma could an individual have gone through that would make them write horrifying stuff like that?? It's just.. makes you think you know. Makes you wonder how much of this world of fiction really is fiction, you know?

I can't really add much.

I don't think your fics are angsty in such a way as to make someone really depressed or anything.

I am kind of curious about this author now, I'm horribly morbid. However I think too much of something is never good.

I guess it's just natural human curiosity that makes people interested. Or that you like feeling certain ways at time. I'm not sure ^^;.

Agh that was me, sorry. I hate it when I do that T_T;;.

I see I'm coming late to this party, but I agree with everyone else. Your fics are great, not depressing at all.

I think angst provides a catharsis. It allows you to relieve strong, repressed emotions and that feels good. It all goes back to wanting to feel good.

Thank you sweetie. It's always great to hear from you, you knew I was waiting for your comment didn't you? :)

I think angst provides a catharsis. It allows you to relieve strong, repressed emotions and that feels good. It all goes back to wanting to feel good.

I know it works, hell it's why we read and write yeah. But I just wish I understood how it works. Having your angst and your troubles thrust into your face, only disguised as someone else's troubles instead.. does it allow you to cry for them and hence indirectly cry for yourself? Why can't I just cry for myself? Why do I need that pretense in the first place? Why don't we acknowledge our own emotions and pain. Why is it easy for us to do it for others, heck for complete strangers but not ourselves. Does that make us weak? Or just in denial?

Okay I'm rambling away, ignore me hon :) I'm also possibly massively hung over and that's why...

there is only one thing i like better than angst and that's smut - and if the two can be combined, i am a happy little pervert. i like my hurt/comfort to be heavy on the hurt and the comfort.

i like violent, sad stories. i like them even better when the ending is happy, but not too happy (i recently saw the movie Eastern Promises, which is a perfect example of this). i don't like things to be tied up in a little bow at the end...i like the healing to have begun, or the big bad to been defeated - but happily ever after just doesn't work for me, emotionally.

i like stories that explore the victim/survivor arc, one of my longer rants on why can be found at this link:

http://nycene.livejournal.com/4967.html#cutid1



I agree hon - you can't put your characters through hell, then miraculously bring them back and expect everything to be bright and shiny again. But it's important as a reader for me to see some of that healing as part of the story and not just left to my imagination. I mean, I let the writer show me the graphic details of the torture, why can't she show me some of the comfort as well right? :) I dunno.. *shrugs* guess that's just me.

Totally agree about the combining of angst and smut.. rough kinky sex! yumm *drools* BUT there needs to be some genuine caring and feelings in it too :)

Thanks for sending me the link hon. Umm I rambled on a bit there as well *grins*

Why do people read sad, tragic stuff or write it? I think it's just a way to deal with those unhappy, uncomfortable and sometimes unacceptable emotions that we feel in our lives in a "safe" environment. A way to get those emotions out and express them, feel them without breaking down in the checkout lane or something. Why is Hamlet so popular...terrible things happen and everyone dies in the end? Is it cathartic or just, thank god I don't have it that bad, I dunno, a little of both maybe?

Personally, I like a balance of light with my dark, which you do quiet nicely. Variety, it's the spice of life right? I must admit I haven't ready everything you've written, but I've haven't come away wanting to slit my wrists or anything so far. Keep up the good work.

A way to get those emotions out and express them, feel them without breaking down in the checkout lane or something.

:) Well said. I guess you're right. This way we control when we let those emotions out, get them out and deal with them in private. *sighs* Yeah, I never thought of it that way.

I must admit I haven't ready everything you've written, but I've haven't come away wanting to slit my wrists or anything so far. Keep up the good work.

Haha thank God!! I guess it also speaks to the calibre of this particular author I was whining about? She's good.. she really is. Which is why she affected me so badly. Anyway, the key is to stay away :) Thanks for the compliments hon. I'm really glad you're reading! :)

Well, I've only read the spanky stories of yours, and still haven't gotten to the hot showers series, but All of the spanky stuff - even the older x-men story with Jean/Logan/Scott - had a very nice balance of angst And healing. I don't find your stories depressing or sad. You have the right amount of angst to keep me interested, and the right amount of healing to make me feel good about the story once it's done.

I have no idea why people write depressing stuff. I hate stories without a happy ending. Real life is full of that kind of thing already - I don't want to waste my fic time reading it.

I don't know why I write so much angst. I don't seem to be able to write much in the way of fluffy happy fics - and I've tried. Maybe one or two, but they are hard work, and I'll get off on angsty tangents that I then have to go back and get rid of them. I think most of us who write or read angst are doing some form of healing past traumas.

I think I pretty much just said the same thing everyone else said, but I hope it helped anyway. :)

Speaking of angsty stories, I'm about to post your new story (which was great by the way) on the fifty prompts page.

I don't find your stories depressing or sad. You have the right amount of angst to keep me interested, and the right amount of healing to make me feel good about the story once it's done.

Thanks hon. I do believe there is one xmen story I wrote (where Angel spanks Scott) that turned out darker than I intended it to be, and got some serious flak for it from an anonymous reader lol. Anyway.. my goal is to end everything happily, or at least have some hope to hold on to no matter what. You're right.. RL has enough of sadness as it is.

Maybe one or two, but they are hard work, and I'll get off on angsty tangents that I then have to go back and get rid of them.

:) Same here. Your stories do have an undercurrent of angst but I guess that can't be helped because, seems to me you don't write in any fandom that is Not angsty in canon itself! :) And the same is true for me. *thinks* Yeah, I think so... But I like your stories anyhow :)

Speaking of angsty stories, I'm about to post your new story (which was great by the way) on the fifty prompts page.

Cool! Started work on the next prompt, this one I'm gonna try to make fluffy.. fingers crossed hehe.







Well I personally like to read a little bit of everything. Very very few books or fanfic have ever read have made me say that was a mistake to read.(at least not because of the emotion behind it, sometimes the plot line just was horrible and confusing)

Every type of writing has a point in time at which it is optimal for reading by a certain person. Taste changes day to day, sometimes you want to read horror, sometimes it sappy love story, sometimes it mystery. People read to feel things be it love, hate, passion, revenge. They want to feel these things without physically being involved(it a safety thing), and they will turn to different authors to get their emotional "fix" for that day.

I personally love everything you write no matter the genre. If I were you I wouldn't be to worried about your readers, we know what our preferences are and you give warnings in the summary. If we read something we don't like, well that is our own fault!
I hope you do not change your style to much just for us.

People read to feel things be it love, hate, passion, revenge. They want to feel these things without physically being involved(it a safety thing), and they will turn to different authors to get their emotional "fix" for that day.

Very well said! I guess you're right. There are days when I can read, heck practically crave horrifying NC-17 angst but I try not to analyze it too closely as to why I'm in that particular mood that day. Maybe if I did, I'd see a pattern, I dunno.

I personally love everything you write no matter the genre. If I were you I wouldn't be to worried about your readers, we know what our preferences are and you give warnings in the summary. If we read something we don't like, well that is our own fault!
I hope you do not change your style to much just for us.


Thanks so much hon! I don't plan to change the way I write, because first and foremost, writing is a personal thing for me, my way to vent. The reason I asked was, I was curious to know how comparable my usual level of angst is with that of others. And if there was a possibility that like that author who writes such depressing stuff, I was doing it too and just wasn't aware of it ;) Anyway.. thank you so much for reading hon :) Take care.

Darlin' no one would be reading your stuff if we didn't like it - hence we keep coming back for more. I don't have a problem with angst as long as it's there for a reason and not just to torture a character. For me it's a way to explore a personality and learn more about a character (and if there's an up-lifting ending, that helps too).

Thanks hon :) And yeah, I know.. you're right. I guess I was kinda drunk that evening when I posted this and so put off by this other author's series I read.. I was disgusted frankly, and then started wondering if there was anybody who'd felt disgusted by anything I ever wrote you know :P
Agree with you on the angst as well! It needs to have a point. And it needs to end if not on a perfect note, then at least with hope that things will get better. That is very important to me.