JM: Young tilted head closeup

cyndrarae

Rebelling against Reality since 2003

v14.0


Previous Entry Share Next Entry
JM: Young tilted head closeup
cyndrarae

Upset ranting and a question. Actually, several...

I have a request for you guys..

Since you were kind enough to friend me, I assume you have been reading the stuff I write yeah? So I guess you would be the best people to answer this question. Umm... okay see there is this author (who shall forever remain unnamed) that I used to like. And now I don't anymore, because I just realized that all her writing,  ALL of her fifty something series are exactly the same - DEPRESSING.

And dark and hopeless. She keeps breaking the characters down, puts them through so much angst and torture until there is nothing left. And then she does it some more. Even the sex isn't hot, it's just kinda... sad. Dubious consent at best. And I have a point I swear. Okay, let me try again.

See this author... the way she writes is so riveting and so bloody... GOOD that... I can't help but get emotionally involved. I start to relate more than I want to. But the thing is, the plot - the characters' circumstances just keep getting worse and worse and it doesn't get better, ever. Even at the end when the big bad is defeated and it's time to start healing and stuff, it's like... she doesn't really want to go there, where things are getting better. She touches upon them like briefly then shies away to a new torture series. The bad parts are graphic and excruciatingly detailed. And I wonder why she writes the way she does. Every writer has demons of his or her own that they're trying to exorcise through this creative outlet.

I feel for her, I really do. But I cannot put myself through this again.

I cannot, will not read her ever again because she just brings me down so horribly. I keep thinking about it and fret about it and smoke a couple more than my usual limit for the day and sometimes, when I'm three or more glasses of wine down like now, I start to cry and have to literally smack myself in the forehead to remind me that it's not real. That it's only fiction.

Yeah, that's how good she is. So.. I'm done with her. Which brings me back to my original reason for this post.

Now I write a considerable amount of angst myself right. And clearly it is a level of pathos I am personally comfortable with, just like the writer mentioned above is comfortable with hers. But what do YOU guys as READERS think? Have I written something, anything so far that has brought you down? Upset you somehow? Made you feel like - "Dude, this is way too painful for me." ? Or "Dude, what is this girl's childhood trauma??" Or "Okay. Reading that one was a mistake." ???

Because, I don't think I want to be that kind of writer that makes people sad. I want to write happy stuff, optimistic stuff. Altho realistically speaking, I suck at fluff. But the least I can do is... write something hopeful you know. And not offload my personal demons onto my readers. I just don't want to do that.

So... umm... I need to know what you guys think? And if there is a piece of my writing that upsets you?

I probably won't take it down for the sake of maintaining my archive to show progress made (bleh if any!) through the years. But it would really help me understand myself and my writing a little more. This is not an attempt to go professional in any way haha. My stupid job and my husband and my dog keep me busy plenty enough thank you. I just... I'm curious you know?

Is there any reason for why we write angst in the first place? And why do we even read it?? What the fuck do we get out of these sad, tragic stories????

........

The only thing that makes me feel like I wasted my time, is when an OFC is introduced, and you haven't done that, so we're good.

Which author was this? And, is my stuff ever too dark?

I have OFCs! In "of hot showers" :) You don't remember 'cause I haven't updated in ages *winces* I know hon, my bad.

But your stuff also gets angsty doesn't it? The whole reason I like "What have I done" so much is because.. damn it I don't know why I like it. I just do. Something about Dean finally recognizing somebody else's pain besides himself kind of resonates with me. You know like, when there is a death in the family, the natural human instinct is to wallow in their own individual pain. Only the rare kinds remember that there are other members in the family who're going through the same deal.
Alright that's tangent! :D Short answer your stuff is always angsty hon, and because I know you a bit, I can see where it's coming from. But it's not dark, it's not completely morbid. I love reading your stuff! *hugs* :)

Well I like angst and deathfics so don't worry about your level of angst for me. As to why I like angst, I'm a tough old bird and very little makes me weepy any more, so a good angsty story that can touch me is really nice. I also love anything that will make me laugh or squee or make me feel all warm and cuddly. All you have to do is connect emotionally with me and you've got me. The only thing I don't usually read are PWP's (unless written by someone I really love as an author) because even though I like my porn I want more than just sex (I really AM such a girl). I want my stories to resonate and yours do. Hope this helps.

I like to read PWPs too but it's like you said.. there;s got to be a point to it, besides the porn. And thank you so much for telling me my stories resonate.. that's such a beautiful compliment! I take it you read angsty stuff as a challenge then? To see if something is good enough to make you weep? :) Hmmm.. I'm still trying to understand my own motives.. but hey it helps to know I haven't upset you in any way :) *hugs* cheers hon.

(Deleted comment)
You always help Vince. You could drop in and say nothing more than a "hi" and even that helps so much, you have no idea :) *hugs*

I'm in a funky mood today. Glad none of my writing has ever upset you. But it's probably 'cause you're as much of a pervy angst!whore as I am haha ;-P But seriously hon.. am glad you're still here.

I read somewhere that every writers have a obsession to cure. Writing can be a way to let all of this behind us.

That sounds so true. We're all trying to run away from something in our real lives and we try to forget about it by fantasizing, distracting ourselves with fiction. And when nobody else is writing what we need, we start writing it ourselves!

cure the "bad with the bad".. Hmm, that's an excellent way to put it!! *thinks* But why does it work hon? I dont know maybe psychiatrists will have the answer to that. Why and how does reading about pain or watching a show like SPN which is about pain, help deal with the pain? Shouldn't it make us even more miserable?? Or do we.. on some level.. need to continue to feel that pain?

Are you confused? :D It's okay hon, I'm confusing myself here.
Thanks for talking to me sweetie :) *hugs* I think I'm gonna get another glass of wine and wallow a bit more.

(Deleted comment)
Hey there! I have a pretty simple response to this, and it's "not at all." Regarding your fic, that is. As you pointed out, you're big on the cuddles. :) It's a good thing.

As for angst in general, it's perfectly fine to a certain extent. I personally have a very long history of writing angst, but I shied away from it after I crossed a couple of lines (in original fiction) that should not have been crossed. I haven't read all of your fic, having no knowledge of the "X-Men" fandom, but what I have read has definitely stayed between the lines.

And for why we write angst, I think for me it often is a form of escapism...when my real life gets me down, I can just sit down and write the story of John Doe, throwing all sorts of crap at him until I realize that my life is actually pretty okay. But I've actually had a few discussions abut that, and the general consensus is that while it's fine to use writing to work through your emotions, most of the time-especially if you take issues directly from your own childhoos trauma and whatnot-it won't be as enjoyable for other people to read, and probably shouldn't be shared. (And I do know one writer who, bless her heart, is immensely talented, but keeps writing fanfiction about her own psychology, so I've stopped reading it.)

As for why we read angst: humans crave drama. We get rushes from any kind of strong emotion. It's part of being human Even if it makes you miserable, sometimes it can be an ecstatic misery, where it's so beautiful and so noble and so sad that you just fall in love with it. And that drew me to angst for the longest time. But over the past couple of years-as I've matured, I guess-I haven't gotten the same response from it. I can enjoy the minor angst, as long as it isn't so consuming that it's the "single effect" I take from the story. But it's very draining to read that kind of piled-on angst, when there are no happy endings and you can't shake it. (That's why I no longer read character death fics. All the Dean angst was killing me.)

And wow, I seem to have written a novel here! Congratulations if you've slogged through it, lol. Anyway, hun, I think your fics are positively beautiful. You don't abuse the privilege of writing angst at all. :)

Hey girl,

Um, yeah....I second exactly what Cam said! (You took the words right out of my mouth, truly)

I'm so with you here, darling. I don't know who you are talking about - sometimes it's better not to say any names - but I do know authors like that too (you are not one of them, though *cuddles*). I never read any of their stories again either. I don't like to feel upset after finishing a fic. Sure, I love angst, but there must be a happy ending.

Thank you sweetie! I'm glad to know I'm not bringing anyone down because we get enough heartbreak in RL don't we.

. I don't like to feel upset after finishing a fic. Sure, I love angst, but there must be a happy ending.
Ditto! (Does anybody say that anymore? Ah its probably just me and my stupid hungover self :P)

Now you've got me all paranoid. Are you talking about me? I swear I only write happy endings! And I insist on it from JF fanfic writers!

Anyway, I hear where you're coming from. This one girl wrote the most horrible torture fic I've ever read and it angered me so much that I had to post about it on my journal, too. I guess for some people with bad pasts writing is very cathartic, however I think when you're dealing with touchy subject matter in such a brutal way, perhaps it's best to keep such fiction to yourself. As a writing exercise, if you will.

I'm not into Supernatural so I haven't read your fics in that fandom (I'm sure they're great) but of course I've read your X-men and I think you write sensitively, which to me is what writing angst is supposed to be. It's not about bashing people over the head with hurt, it's inviting the reader to experience it, too, in their own way. I think you do that well, and never go over the top.

What? How could you even think it's you hon? For one, the sex is ALWAYS hot on JF :P That's an immediate disqualifier right there lol.

I guess for some people with bad pasts writing is very cathartic, however I think when you're dealing with touchy subject matter in such a brutal way, perhaps it's best to keep such fiction to yourself. As a writing exercise, if you will.

Yeah but maybe the author doesn't even know the impact her writing has, because no one is telling her. Hell I'm not saying anything. I wouldn't know how to - "sorry but please stop writing shit that makes me wanna cry"? I don't think so :P
And I'm sure she does have readers who don't mind the extreme angst. Different strokes and all that.

It's not about bashing people over the head with hurt, it's inviting the reader to experience it, too, in their own way. I think you do that well, and never go over the top.

*sighs* Thanks sweetie. You have no idea how huge a relief that is. I need happy endings period. And a tolerable limit to how much torture the characters go through. I'm a perv, but hey I'm not completely evil :P

cheers hon.

I've just read your story for 2 (spn rps), maybe i can not say much.
but since i am a reader. your story is very good. They make me so much happy :)
i want to cheer you up.
i understand the situation when fiction turn to hurt reader, it really hurt my feeling. Darken my day for a longtime.
But really, your story make me happy so much :)

Your story fill a twilight to my world. I love them

Thank you sweetie. I'm glad my stories made you happy. I definitely want people to think about stuff after they read my fics, but I don't them to be sad thinking about it.
*hugs and kisses*

Nothing you've done has turned me off, Cyn. I guess everyone has their demons that they exorcise in fic. If someone goes beyond the point of angst, to recovery, I guess I see it as a comittment to do the recovery part (like the angst part) well too. May I ask - and I'm sorry for bringing this up in *your* post about this - do I overdo the angst (my level of angst, I mean)? Especially in "From the Ashes" by not getting to Scott/Logan by now?

If someone goes beyond the point of angst, to recovery, I guess I see it as a comittment to do the recovery part (like the angst part) well too.

Exactly! That's what was missing from the works of this.. other person I was talking about. I don't mind angst so long as it gets resolved somehow at the end of it all :(

Hon, the good thing about you is, you have been updating "From the Ashes" on a regular basis. I'm not saying you couldn't be faster ;-P but it is clear to me that you are committed to finishing it and that's what keeps me reading. Of course there is angst galore ;) but it's not overdone. But it affects me deeply and I want to know how it all ends. And knowing you, I'm sure it will end well :) (It will right??)

I think the reason we write and the reason angst are really similar.

I write angst when I'm going through a difficult time. It helps me confront my emotions and feel better just by getting them down on paper or a computer screen. Two summers ago when I had a bad relapse (I have severe clinical depression) and didn't get out of bed for two months, bad things happened to my characters. Two of them were kidnapped and tortured and one the guy was forced to rape the girl (but I didn't write this out, just spoke about it in after a medical exam or something like). She turned up pregnant and her husband went back to Earth and sent back divorce papers. (One of my best friends is still trying to get me to write a reconciliation.)

I read angst for similar reasons, that emotional release. I'm not really into the graphic details of torture or anything. I keep a couple really angsty fic in reserve for when I really want some. :) But I have to say for the most part, if I see a warning for angst, I won't read it. I bring myself down enough that I don't need other writers for that.

P.S. I do really love your fic.


When I'm depressed, and I probably shouldn't be using the term at all since I never got myself checked for it, I can't write period. All these thoughts keep piling up in my head but I can't find the energy to let it out. I think I start writing only after it passes. And by then I'm calmer so it reflects in my writing.

But you're right, when I read in that kind of a mindset - I'm looking for horribly angsty, or NC-17 non-con or dub-con stuff. But it absolutely must end well with lots of h/c as fanficcers put it :)

But I have to say for the most part, if I see a warning for angst, I won't read it. I bring myself down enough that I don't need other writers for that.

*hugs* Sweetie that's an awesome attitude. And I agree completely! It's why i don't want to be one of those writers that offload all their angst onto unsuspecting readers and bring them down. Thank you so much for reading hon :)

I know exactly what you mean, and I won't read that any more either. To me your work does not qualify. I don't mind a story that ends on a really depressing note, if it is fitting and the story is relatively short. However, if I am going through all the emotional tearing down of a long torture fic, I want the corresponding build-up of healing. I actually prefer this phase. If the author is going to gloss over the healing phase, I feel cheated. As for why I read angst - sometimes I need a good cry. I have mostly trained myself not to cry for things about my life. However, when I read angst, I can sit alone in front of a computer and cry for other people. Oddly this actually makes me feel better.

I don't mind a story that ends on a really depressing note, if it is fitting and the story is relatively short. However, if I am going through all the emotional tearing down of a long torture fic, I want the corresponding build-up of healing. I actually prefer this phase. If the author is going to gloss over the healing phase, I feel cheated.

Completely agree with every single word you said hon. It's what really brought me down with the.. other author's work that I read yesterday. I felt cheated.

I have mostly trained myself not to cry for things about my life. However, when I read angst, I can sit alone in front of a computer and cry for other people. Oddly this actually makes me feel better.

So true. I always think crying about my issues is overrated, it is not cathartic, I don't feel better after it, it just does NOT help me period. But reading about someone else, empathizing with their pain and maybe even crying a little for them, distracts me enough to forget about my own. And I think that feels good.

You and I have a lot in common hon. Thanks for talking to me :)

first of all - i love your writing! yee you might make them hurt but there is a balance with the making up...and there is that distant promise that i know you'll keep;) one thing that bugs me ALOT! is that you stopped the "hot showers"!verse :((( i really miss it....


i love intense peaces, even if they are sad or tragic...anything that hooks you in and you feel them and their world....but in what you described there is no progress, no movement...and i don't like when thing just maintain the same level, i need change (guess you do too)...


I'm so sorry sweetheart! I do want to finish it, I do. But somehow my muses never cooperate.. I have a massive hangover this morning but tell you what.. I'm going to make myself some chamomile and start cracking on that damn eleventh chapter. Don't be mad please sweetie?!? :)

but in what you described there is no progress, no movement...and i don't like when thing just maintain the same level, i need change (guess you do too)...

Absolutely. And change for the better, not worse. She just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. *shakes head* I will never understand why she has so many readers, I for one will not be able to so much as look at even the headers of any of her stories again.

Much hugs, babe.

Writing is a good way to vent, to work out emotions and sometimes crying about things does make you feel better (something about the release of endorphins).

I worry, though, about being able to see past tragedy and fear and I shy away from evidence and expressions of severe depression (I don't shy away from the people, just the depression).

You sound to me like a powerful empath, which probably means that things do and will effect you, so do be careful not to let other people's fics take you to a place you don't want to be.

YOUR stories are delightful. I haven't read them all, but in what I have read you have dealt very tenderly with the characters.

My advice, if you want it, is to go ahead and stretch yourself: write a fluff piece :) You don't have to post it and it's okay if it sucks or if it turns a little angsty, but take a stab at filling the fic with love and hope. Let a little goodness shine through for your characters, because it sounds like what you're craving.

Take care.
Sarah

Hey sweetie. Thanks for your kind words. You're right - writing is our way to vent. It helps me offload stuff I've been thinking or worrying about, you know, distract myself from RL stuff with fictional stuff. But the end result of any story for me must be positive or there is no point.
So when I come across other people's writings that are so devoid of hope or anything positive at all.. it makes me wonder what they must be going through. And that saddens me even more because it reminds me that this world of fiction that's supposed to be my escape from RL, isn't entirely fictional after all.

do be careful not to let other people's fics take you to a place you don't want to be.

I know hon, I still like angst but I have to remember I have a limit. And pushing it just upsets me too much. Thank God for you guys who write such cute, happy stuff that makes me smile :)

My advice, if you want it, is to go ahead and stretch yourself: write a fluff piece :) You don't have to post it and it's okay if it sucks or if it turns a little angsty, but take a stab at filling the fic with love and hope.

Ouch. Seriously? I suck at it Sarah, I SUCK!! It starts out happy and ends so bad.. *shakes head* but I guess.. I'm gonna try again. *sighs* Thank you so much sweetheart :) *hugs*

P.S. OMG! you should SO write a drunken-Sammy-rant
with these bits of angst, drama, logic, humor, empathy and self doubt......it would be fantastic!!!;D

*narrows eyes at you* Ha Ha. You're an evil child :-P This is your way of telling me I make an entertaining drunk isn't it? :P

I cannot recall that any of your stories were too depressing or upsetting at all.

I think I know which writer you speak of, although I suppose there are a number of writers who only do dark and depressing. I'm one of those readers who likes angstfic, when I list my favorite stories, I almost invariably find that they are very very dark. I recently thought over this issue myself - in a way I find reading the dark stuff cathartic, I find it easier to let go and feel sad over someone else's story more than my own life. On the other hand, I worry that it triggers my depression more to read so much of this stuff. I mostly just try not to read only these kinds of stories for hours at a time, that definitely can't be good for my state of mental health. But I find a lot of fluff stories to be dead boring and OOC, and if I read nothing but NC17, I get totally jaded to that after awhile, which isn't fun. So for me, I like to mix it up, but I understand that some people are more sensitive to violence and would rather avoid those stories. I'm pretty masculine in my entertainment taste, I guess.

I cannot recall that any of your stories were too depressing or upsetting at all.

Great! *sighs in relief* I know different people have different limits, but i still wouldn't want to bring anyone down.

I recently thought over this issue myself - in a way I find reading the dark stuff cathartic, I find it easier to let go and feel sad over someone else's story more than my own life. On the other hand, I worry that it triggers my depression more to read so much of this stuff.

I guess what you're saying is that excess of anything is a bad thing, and I agree. That particular author has written long series with 30-40 chapters right. So if you try to read one whole series in one sitting - oh God, I wouldn't recommend it. It was so seriously upsetting, I had to get up and pace and grab my jacket to step out just so I could smoke in the freakin' rain. I don't know why I reacted so badly. You may be right about it triggering your depression even more, because it sure did with me.

So for me, I like to mix it up, but I understand that some people are more sensitive to violence and would rather avoid those stories. I'm pretty masculine in my entertainment taste, I guess.

:) My husband won't admit it but I know he enjoys reality shows and romantic comedies :D I should be worried shouldn't I? LOL. Seriously speaking hon, don't see anything wrong with a taste for angst and violence. I like NC-17 non-con stuff myself, when I'm in the mood for it. But I guess mixing up is a good idea. You may think you have high tolerance but you never know how it is affecting your psyche right? 'cause it's a very slow progression. *shrugs* Thanks for talking to me hon :)

Nope. You don't overangst. Simple as that. I love your writing and I'll personally find you and throw a screaming tantrum at your feet if I don't get more "of hot showers" LOL.

I believe I know EXACTLY who you are speaking of. I'd say she's working out personal demons. Sometimes we share that with others. Folks seem to like it. *shrug* I've stopped reading the angst series.

And for just a moment, I wondered if you meant me. I often wonder if I spank the boys too often.

I love your writing and I'll personally find you and throw a screaming tantrum at your feet if I don't get more "of hot showers" LOL

:D Thank you sweetie. And yeah "hot showers" I know I know!! I totally deserve a good spanking for slacking off on that one :P My muse is comatose on that one but I will finish it I swear, somehow. Some day. *bites lip*

I believe I know EXACTLY who you are speaking of. I'd say she's working out personal demons. Sometimes we share that with others. Folks seem to like it. *shrug* I've stopped reading the angst series.

Good choice. She is totally bringing me down, and especially now that she is also writing RPS? It stings even more, to think that on some subconscious level this author is fantasizing about torturing real people and not batting an eyelid doing it? What must she be going through, I wonder. *shudders*

And for just a moment, I wondered if you meant me. I often wonder if I spank the boys too often.

No hon. Your series is all about discipline. of course they will have to be spanked. But I don't think you overdo it. I especially love your stories where there is no discipline whatsoever, instead it's full of fatherly or brotherly introspections and cuddlings :) With John holding Sam or putting him to sleep :) *sighs* There is so much love in your stories. The angst sometimes does make my throat close up now and then. But that's because you write so well, I get completely involved.


?

Log in

No account? Create an account